LARP Debate: Art or sport?

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[MortalisGames]

A short while back I was chatting with a fellow LARPer and they referred to the LARP hobby as a sport and it got me thinking, is LARPing a form of art or a type of sport? I briefly touched on the sport-like aspects of the hobby within a short paper(PDF) I wrote in 2006 for some British LARPing friends who wanted to know more about the state of the hobby over here in the States. I feel that this question could use some clarification and exploration beyond what was covered in that paper.

I think it's best to start with defining both art and sport so as to gain a consistent understanding of both words. The Random House Dictionary provides as the initial definition of art and sport the following:

Art - 1. The quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance. "Art." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 20 Jun. 2009. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art >.

Sport - 1. An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. "Sport." Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1). Random House, Inc. 20 Jun. 2009. <Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport >.

Within the LARPing hobby I feel there are two distinct forms of LARP with one of those forms having two key sub-forms (pulling heavily from the aforementioned paper):

Theater - This style does not utilize any form of live-combat mechanics and instead use an alternate resolution system for combat and conflict resolution such as rolling a die or drawing a card from a deck for the randomizer then adding that number into whatever skill or ability is used to determine success or failure or comparing skills or stats from character sheets/cards.

Live combat - These LARPs use mock weapons as a part of their conflict resolution and outside of this conflict resolution tend to be more of a if-you-can-do-it-you-can-do-it form of game. If you can pick the lock you’ve picked the lock, if you can sneak by the orc, you’ve snuck by the orc, and etc. Within the live-combat category there are two sub-forms: Role-play and battle game.

From the above I feel it can be clearly said that theater style LARPs fall straight into the art category. The key crux of the debate then falls upon the live-combat variants: role-play and battle game. As I see it, role-play oriented live-combat LARPs fall into the art category and battle-game oriented LARPs into the sport category. Why?

Role-play oriented LARPs (I'll refer to as LRP for Live Role-Play) I feel is a form of improvisational theater and thus a form of art. They put the focus on plot and character development within a story and less on just combat. LRPs try to keep the focus on the story and only involve combat when needed because the story warrants it. This doesn’t mean that an entire event that happens to be combat heavy isn’t a LRP, but that the combat is there because of story and plot, not because that’s the extent of the event without other reasons.

Battle games (BGs for short) put the focus on the combat, don’t have much in they way of ongoing plot and character development isn’t based on story. This isn’t to say that the combat doesn’t have a goal in mind, but that the event as a whole is to engage in fighting with little to no role-play whatsoever. In short they take miniature war gaming (Warhammer Fantasy or Warhammer 40K for examples) and make that a live-action event.  Given the definitions above, BGs fall right under the definition of being a type of sport as they also tend to be highly competitive in nature.

In my opinion BGs aren't a true form of LARP, even if they are lumped in with the LARP hobby. LRP and BGs may have some common ties; however I feel that they have become unique enough in their own rights that they have become separate forms: One art and the other sport and should be viewed and treated as such. Now I can hear some arguments, particularly from the BG crowd of "But they take on the role of a character and isn't that role-play?" No, and yet there are aspects where 'yes' is applicable. Role-play is an art and art is not a core focus of the activity, the fight/battle is. Even though BGs aren't an art, a person may learn an art because of it such as sewing garb, tooling and working with leather and such. It's just that BGs them self aren't an art. Bottom line, BGs are played to win. In LRP there isn't a winner or rather every one is a winner that participated because story and plot was progressed.

Why is it important to understand this and understand which camp a particular group or game falls into?

Knowing which form is predominant in the game you play will help you as a player better understand the kind of game you should be aiming for. If a game is LRP, expect heavy role play and immersion within the game setting. If a game is a BG, expect combat to be the key, if not only thing that occurs when the group meets up.

From a game designer's standpoint, defining which aspect forms the core of your game will help you better design it and play it and place expectations within the rule system for qualities you want the game to carry. This will help you define the type of people you want your game to attract and the overall atmosphere of the game.

What is your opinion on this debate? What do you see as an art or sport or both?

Next week's article will be on what reading material should be on a LARP designer's bookshelf/reading list. I love to hear feedback and suggestions for further articles, so please send your letters to webmaster@mortalisrpg.com.

[rev. Jimmy Anderson]

To me whne I was first introduced to "LARP"  It was called LRP   without the A in it. I have always thought it should stay as LRP. Besides the combat. Actual role playing the characters. Alot of groups are more combat oriented. With little to no roleplaying at all. Which I do not consider as a LRP. Best examples of LRP would be  Portly Pixie, Labyrithe, and various others I have gotten to know in the UK.  There used to be a really good mag called GM.  It covered LRP  alot.   I really suggest getting a copy if you can find them. I am guessing that LRP was changed to LARP  because maybe it was more confused with more Stage acting minus the combat.  I know there is a happy medium between pure just acting and pure  no roleplaying beat eachother up with padded weapons combat.  I am more for the combination of teh both. But to answer your question. Is  it art or a sport.     I would say both. And I agree  the more roleplaying non combat is teh art. The full on no roleplaying just beat eachother up is a sport.  But LRP is a happy combination of the two.    I just hope this helps.   

[Maria]

Is there any kind of reason why BGs are so prevalent in the US?

I can't think of any example here in Europe (okay, leaving out those Russian/Eastern full-armor-die-hard battle larps that are more of a mass brawl and martial arts) that is as competitive and  purely physical. Okay, we also have battle larps, but their appeal is mostly the story, heroic actions and the chance to stand on the frontline with an army of hundreds of fellow fighters behind you - collective exhilerating feelings, not the individual "let's see who's better, me/my team or you/your team"

Hypothesis 1: It's easier to get access to team sport activities here. In the US access to affordable sport clubs is limited to students. Working adults either have to go out of their way to find one (like Ultimate Frisby) or do it professionally. There isn't the same kind of infrastructure we have where every 200-inhabitants village has their own soccer team and their "Sportvereine" that offer other kinds of highly competitive but still amateur team sports.

Hypothesis 2: Americans are more competitive, per se. They've made it through multiple application processes, for college, for jobs, for grants etc. They've had their GREs or SATs that are also competitive. They compete for credit points and try to be better than their fellow students - the education system fosters this kind of meritocratic self-advancement. They have to know how to prove and sell themselves. Whereas for most Germans, the first time they really enter any kind of competition is the labor market. School here works  like an elevator - you are judged only on your own account,it doesn't matter how many others are as good as you if you have good grades  you will automatically get the license to go to high school/ enter university - and college admission is also automatically, provided you've reached the necessary GPA and are able to pay the tuition fees (max. of  $900 per semester). Of course, things are changing, Germany is more and more getting away from the "free for all" egalitarian system, but still, that's a difference, imho.

Hypothesis 3: Pen&Paper-Roots. Larp in the US is older than anywhere else, putting it closer in time to classic D&D-style roleplaying with its "get points, hack'n slay, level up, become powerful, show your skills". I don't know, but that might have influenced early American larping styles to develop this kind of "achiever" mentality. And since most of the campaigns/organizations that were established way back are still running (Nero, Amtgard and their offsprings) people are used to do things that way and that's what they think larp is?

Hypothesis 4: Um, that may sound stupid: Sport as escapism? I mean, that's a pretty good way to let off steam, relieve anxieties in a controlled, fair and encouraging environment. And you can polish your self-worth. I may be talking out of my a...  but since life in America might be faster, more stressful and less safe than in the welfare states of Europe...hm.

[Gordon]

I don't think there is a good answer to the question other than to say that "Live Action Role Play" is not a cohesive thing unto itself.

Some events that are considered LARP because they are fought with boffer weapons have a level of characterization and roleplay equal to events that would be considered "sport" if they were fought with airsoft weapons.  Other events that are also fought with boffer weapons offer amazing elements of roleplay and story. 

So there is a spectrum and in discussing art, we're talking about the end of the spectrum away from "field sport" and closer to "roleplay and story."

To be a new art, a thing must be distinct from an old art, because of some special thing.  For example Cinema is a new art that is not Theatre.  It is still *Drama*.  It became a new art when it gained the quality that the drama could be developed out of sequence and that the delivery of the drama could be insured by performing a part more than once until it achieved the Director's goal. 

LARP is a new art because it involves the creation of stories involving multiple, simultaneous, protagonists.   This can't happen in novels (though there are some attempts to make it happen in 2d by rapidly shifting narrative) and is seldom successful onscreen.  But in LARP, it is the rule.  The art of how to write a satisfying story for multiple simultaneous protagonists is in its infancy and often borrows from other methods.  Some LARP authors try to write a play and force the players into it.  Others create a completely freeform environment and depend on impromptu theatre.  But the real art that is LARP lies in creating that story.

Note that I do not say "writing" that story.  I think there is an obsession and overemphasis that goes with authoring based on Theatre.  Note that while playwrights are famous, many people do not know who wrote a given screenplay.  Nobody speaks about Steven Zaillian's movie Schindler's List.  Zaillian wrote the screenplay but it was Spielberg's movie.   Creating the story is a pro-active work, and it makes all of the participants into artists.  Whether there is one overall director, or a shared experience where every single participant acts as author/director as well as performer, the actual art of LARP is not in writing anymore than the art of Schindler's List as Cinema is in the screenplay or the novel.  Each are worthy arts, and Writing for LARP may be a dramatic art itself, akin to screenplay writing, but in the end...it is the creation of the performance that is actually the art of LARP.

"Live Action Role Play" is a poor and ambiguous term.  In some days past they used "interactive literature" which only serves to overemphasize the written element.  In the end I think that "live action" is some extra words.  The art is "role play," and all other terms merely stand to distinguish a specific set of styles of presentation from a larger art.

That said, my experience in online communities tells me that a generation of Americans and Europeans are growing up understanding RP as an art and communication form who have never heard of "LARP" and probably never will.  While their fumblings may seem primitive in some cases, in the long run they are the ones making a thing which has long been a part of human play into a lasting art that is an icon of our culture.

[creedmore]

Ahh... actually - I disagree with you there, Gordon.  Well - not completley - but a little.
I feel that it can be defined - or - I'd propose a way to do so.
I'd be interested to hear if this works as a definition for you - or not.

Ok - see - I could say that the answer is in the eye of the beholder...
...but that could be said about anything - I could be a Ice-Hockey fan and say that it's art.
And in my mind, I could really feel that it is a form of art. And in my mind, I would be right.
The answer IS in the eye of the beholder - but - definitions lie in collective belief.
And I feel a definition can be created regardless of personal beliefs.

So -based on this idea about definitions - I think I have a reasonable way to define wether a game is Art or Sport.

If 80% of the players go to a game As Their Primary Activity to make art, act, or do drama - then it's art.
If 80% of the players go to a game As Their Primary Activity to win, compete, do physical activity and/or keep fit - then it's sport.

And if 80% of the players can't all sit on one side of the fence or the other - then it's both - so - it can't be defined as either.

Having said that - I've seen many games that 80% would say it's 'art' and... yet it actually is a string of fights with some roleplaying in between. But that's a totally different matter - that's just the difference between 'good art' and 'bad art' - and what qualifies as good and bad art really is entirely subjective

I'd personally define 'Larp as good art' to mean a game that seeks roleplay for the sake of roleplay.
I'd personally define 'Larp as bad art' to mean a game that seeks roleplaying to pass time until the next fight.
But that's personal preference, and everyone's mileage on that will vary.

Alright... so to prevent myself from being completley boring...
...what'd ya'll say the SCA is - Art, Sport, or Something Else? (Perhaps 'Society for Creative Anarchronisms' IS a good definition?)
Also -  Competitive Dance - Art or a Sport? Or Both

~ C

[Baronblackrose]

Is there any kind of reason why BGs are so prevalent in the US?

I believe that unfortunately  majority of the "larp" groups if you can consider majority of what goes on in the US as such. Is basically a loose group of friends beating the tar out of each other with padded weapons.  Pretty much no larp just the combat aspect of it.  Whne I was first introduced into "LARP"  An dI mean actuall LARP.  PEople wore actual costumes. Actually played their characters.   Alot of things ILF has but actual physical combat.  A happy combination of sport and role playing.   Now my biggest turn off in majority of the LARPS here in the US. Is  lack of costumes.   And pretty much lack of actual Role playing. Now there are some groups who really do represent what a true LARP is. But the majority in my opinion. Do not. 


I am going to skip the first hypothesis. And go right to the second one.   

Hypothesis 2: Americans are more competitive, per se. They've made it through multiple application processes, for college, for jobs, for grants etc. They've had their GREs or SATs that are also competitive. They compete for credit points and try to be better than their fellow students - the education system fosters this kind of meritocratic self-advancement. They have to know how to prove and sell themselves. Whereas for most Germans, the first time they really enter any kind of competition is the labor market. School here works  like an elevator - you are judged only on your own account,it doesn't matter how many others are as good as you if you have good grades  you will automatically get the license to go to high school/ enter university - and college admission is also automatically, provided you've reached the necessary GPA and are able to pay the tuition fees (max. of  $900 per semester). Of course, things are changing, Germany is more and more getting away from the "free for all" egalitarian system, but still, that's a difference, imho.

Alot of the education here in the states. Is mainly geared around the no child left behind syndrum. Matter of fact alot of todays kids fail when compared against students around the world. Matter of fact alot of them couldn;t tell you where portugal was on the map. The education system here is broken here in the US. Too many people making history books politically correct. And try to revise what actually happened in the past.  Since this website is giving me problems trying to reply. I will answered the other hypothesis in separate posts.

[Baronblackrose]

Hypothesis 3: Pen&Paper-Roots. Larp in the US is older than anywhere else, putting it closer in time to classic D&D-style roleplaying with its "get points, hack'n slay, level up, become powerful, show your skills". I don't know, but that might have influenced early American larping styles to develop this kind of "achiever" mentality. And since most of the campaigns/organizations that were established way back are still running (Nero, Amtgard and their offsprings) people are used to do things that way and that's what they think larp is?


I believe  that LARP itself is much much older then pen & paper. When people pretended to be something they weren't.  Cow boys and indians. Cops and robbers.    As far as US being the oldest larp.  I would have to disagree. Anyone remember treasure trap?        I remember LARP  or LRP as it was referred to originally.  Was more  pure roleplaying.  With simulated combat. Via  dice rolling.  Paper rock scissors. No physical combat.    As far as an actual LARP group.  I would think Alliance/NERO  best represent what larp is or was.  Mind you not all of their chapters represent this. Some of the hardcore ones do. For example the chapter of Alliance that was showcased on G4.  Now mind you LARP to me is what I saw in teh groups in the UK. I'll list some groups. Some are long gone.   Kingdom of the Skull,  Portly Pixie,  Labyrinthe, Treasure Trap, Fools and heroes.  Etc.   There used to be a magazine named GM. It was a UK publication that covered LRP as it was referred to then. Unfortunately said mag went out of publication. I do suggest get a copy if you can find them.  Now what I see as LARP  and what alot of the people in the US see as LARP differ  very much. Since I use UK LARP as what a true LARP is.  Where as the majority of teh groups I have come to know here in the US. In my opinion. Do not truly represent what my idea of a LARP is.

[Baronblackrose]

Hypothesis 4: Um, that may sound stupid: Sport as escapism? I mean, that's a pretty good way to let off steam, relieve anxieties in a controlled, fair and encouraging environment. And you can polish your self-worth. I may be talking out of my a...  but since life in America might be faster, more stressful and less safe than in the welfare states of Europe...hm.
 
It really depends on one's lifestyle.  Me I don;t see sport as escapism. Why you ask? Because When I am doing sport. Ia ms till me being me.  Where as whne I am LARPing.  That just sounds silly. LARPing. Anyways.  Whne I am Live Roleplaying  aka LRPing. I am not me. I am my character.   I am in the world where my LRP character resides.  That is escapism. Sport is not.    Best exaple.  Is Tom Brady really Tom Brady when he is on the Football field. Or is he escaping who he really is. I would say no. He is still Tom Brady the football player.  Not  Valkyr  the lord of the ball of Foot.      Unfortunately majority of americans do lead a very stressful life. I would have to say from starting in school up to adult life. 

[Baronblackrose]

Alright... so to prevent myself from being completley boring...
...what'd ya'll say the SCA is - Art, Sport, or Something Else? (Perhaps 'Society for Creative Anarchronisms' IS a good definition?)
Well SCA  and other groups like Empire of Adria.  Are what they call History Recreationism.   I would have to say something else.   And I was a member of Empre of Adria.  Live steel, Kendo sticks,  and rapier.    Where as SCA is more baseball bat like swords.  Now as far as teh combat goes. I would say sport.  It's almost like LARP but not really.  Recreating a time long gone.  Where as  the majority of the LARP that comes close to say SCA is mainly based in a medieval fantasy world where there are elves, Dwarves etc. 
Although SCA is set in primarily a medieval setting. It does not have teh creatures a LARP would have. 


Also -  Competitive Dance - Art or a Sport? Or Both
I would have to say Aport. Now if you had asked if Ballet was sport or art. I would have to say art.  I remember there was a debate on whether Cheerleading was a sport. In my opinion no it is not. Cheerleading was originally started to get the crowd into the game.  To support their team.   

[MortalisGames]

First off I apologize for the lateness of my reply to the comments on this thread. I've been away on vacation for the past week and have just barely gotten time to play catch up on comments. I'd also like to thank those who've commented for their comments. I feel that such discourse is a good thing and that through such comments we can gain new understandings that we may not have had before.

Allow me to share a bit more on this piece as well as comment to the comments that have been provided. I knew when I wrote this piece I was bringing up and giving my opinion on a very controversial subject within LARPing circles. I also realize that I took a very black and white approach to this. Yes, I did that on purpose.

I will have to agree with rev. Jimmy Anderson that what ever aspect of LARP one plays in, it encompasses both aspects of both art and sport. It's more a question of which aspect is the dominant one. When I looked at the two aspects of the LARP hobby (role-play oriented vs. battle game) I analyzed it more on the basis of the definitions given for art and sport based on the dominant aspect of the given type. Battle games being a sport vs. role-play oriented (and theater style) ones being an art.

As for Maria's question, "Is there any kind of reason why BGs are so prevalent in the US?" Here are my thoughts on the matter: Much like AD&D was born from mini-war gaming I think the same is true for LARP, just take war-gaming and make it live-action and you've got a live-action battle game.

I also feel it's because cheap to do and to get a group started (at least for live-combat variants). Battle-games typically run for the portion of a single day thus you don't have the expenses associated with securing a site that people can sleep at (from a full service 'campsite' with cabins and such to just a secure space for a multitude of tents) and it's typically far cheaper to participate in as well. It's also easier to find the time to spend 4-6 hours out doing something than 48 hours (particularly when you get older and have less free time). Much more of this I covered in my paper entitled Shape of the US LARP Hobby(PDF).

[rev.Jimmy Anderson]

I have to agree. Back in the day. I was part of a combat oriented group called Medieval Fantasy Combat organization.  Or Medieval mayhem.   The event was just one day. Took place early in the morning and ended that afternoon.  We had alot of fun. With some fantasy thrown in. But it was still not LARP in my eyes. Because of the fact there was no actual roleplaying involved.   In my opinion a true LARP is a equal combination of both role play and combat.   Which it seems majority of the "larps" don't get.  Now I have seen some pretty good examples of a true LARP.     And pretty abysmal excuses  that were called larp.   Mostly costume wise and how it was ran.    I am used to full costumes  actual physical representation.  Where as the abysmal ones is just some bloke with a tunic thrown over his street clothes. Basically Hi I'm bob I am like a knight although my costume screams  welfare peasant.    Or  a guy who is wearing a costume. But unfortunately he claims he is being a dream moth.     Now I'll give him E for effort but F-  for the attempt to be a monster when he was clearly not even dressed as such.  If I am going to be a monster I would try to get something to represent as closely to said monster as possible.  And it doesn't have to break your wallet to do so.  Otherwise you're just some bloke in a costume of a bloke trying to be a monster when you don't look it.   Phys rep is the term.   I believe  the hardcore chapters of  Alliance and NERO show this.   And also alot of groups I know in the UK.   Say you're a skeleton critter.   Wear a skeleton suit or something.  Face paint etc.    That's a good example.. A bad example is.. Just some bloke in jeans and a tshirt going. RAWRR I'm a skeleton.    Umm yeah.     Not in my book you're not.   Now onto the s is LARP a sport or art.  If Combat is teh main focus and nothing else.  You can call it a quasi sport. For Example MFCO would be more sport then art. Since it was geared for combat. And it's name Medival fantasy COMBAT organization. Yeah it has the word fantasy in it. But it's less fantasy more combat.   Now lets see  there's agroup called  Billy bob's  excalibur fantasy league.    Whne you join you find out it's just a bunch of guys beating the tar out of each with boffers.  And yet they claim they are a LARP. Me personally I would go elsewhere if a LARP was what I was looking for.  Or say you were looking to join a combat group. And you join ILF. Obviously you realise they are roleplay oriented with simulated combat with no physical combat at all.  That wouldn't be the group for you.  So if you were  at my flat and saw me getting steamed at vids on youtube. saying they are LARP but it's just a bunch of blokes being stupid or basically just beating eachother with boffers with no actual LARP going on. That's just my point of view of what a true LARP is. I hope I have helped in some way.  Some movies I can suggest for you to best get an idea of how a larp could be like.  Excalibur, LAdy hawke, LOTR etc.

[Maria]

Hey, the economic explanation never even occurred to me.

As to the art or sport debate:  Amber, I would claim that all-art events are still larp (even without the sport) whereas all-sport games are not larp because they lack what I think of as the "mimetic" aspect of the hobby: role-playing something that is not you. 

[Nath]

Here is a short piece I wrote tackling this topic:

http://larp-musing.livejournal.com/#entry_7073

[Clay]

Is there any kind of reason why BGs are so prevalent in the US?Hypothesis 4: Um, that may sound stupid: Sport as escapism? I mean, that's a pretty good way to let off steam, relieve anxieties in a controlled, fair and encouraging environment. And you can polish your self-worth. I may be talking out of my a...  but since life in America might be faster, more stressful and less safe than in the welfare states of Europe...hm.

Most U.S. battle games are really just a slightly more padded version of SCA combat. They care about costume and character, but must of the cost, effort and practice goes into what happens on the battle field. Are large SCA battles popular in Europe? If so, you already have the equivalent of a BG, IMHO.

Clay
http://www.anstarra.com (New Englanders: Please help us with our free outdoor larp on Oct 17 and 18)